Moderates do not engage in Jihad but they also do not convincingly repudiate those that do.
I came across this cartoon and felt that this captured the essence of the conversation so far.
To avoid ambiguity, let me clarify that “Moderate Muslim” refers to people of Islamic faith who do not relate to the Jihadi sentiment and yet do precious little to denounce, deride and otherwise de-legitimize it.
In fact groups that purport to speak in the name of “enlightened and moderate Islam” often engage in verbal acrobatics to dress up Islam and attempt to stifle any examination of the Jihadi impulse. Nitwit Nastik had posted this excellent YouTube video in the comments section earlier. I’m re-posting it here. If you did not get a chance to check it out earlier, take a look at it now.
Here this Yunis dude is saying that:
- Less than 1% of muslims are violent crazed lunatics.
- Showing such violent outbursts tarnishes the balance 99%.
- The decision by US and UK media to not show the cartoons that lie at the heart of this mayhem is wise – so as to preserve ‘strategic engagement’ with “moderates”.
Frenzied rioting over danish cartoons
At no point however, does he take on the burden of explaining how a tiny minority could have the nerve to engage in such a scale of violent frenzy if they feared the censure of the balance 99%. And of course he completely side-steps Hitchens’ remark that this kind of violence was expressly supported by numerous mid-eastern governments.
This leads me to the following conclusions:
- The hard-core Islamists are not as tiny a minority as apologists claim.
- There is a wide segment of “Soft Jihadis” who sympathize with the “hard-core Jihadis” although they do not actually participate in their frenzied violence. This segment is probably wide enough to constitute a majority.
- The balance “moderate/enlightened/secular muslims” are content with simply burying their heads in the sand.
It is this last segment (or shall we call it remnant) that Yunis wants us to pander to and not alienate.
Evidently Yunis has not buried his head in the sand. It is safely tucked up a specific area of the anatomy where the sun don’t shine.
Filed under: bigotry, Islam, Politics, Religion, Religious Intolerance | Tagged: intolerance, Islam, muslim, Religious Intolerance, violence |
Mind Droppings 
I think he sidestepped every question he was asked..this is exactly what most apologists do…and to hitchen’s last question..let moderate muslims answer whether others have the right to crticize islam ? if not, then i cannot call them moderates..that person is also a fanatic..maybe to a different degree but still a fanatic..a fanatic isn’t always a person who picks up a gun or straps himself to a bomb..
Christopher Hitchens is one of my heroes. He pointed to “we, the followers of Enlightenment”. He pointed out that Islam makes these claims about organising society in the best way or so, hence it has to open itself to criticism, even if offensive. Great.
Well, I feel that when Muslims in the end wholeheartedly submit to our most important democratic rules, then these will protect us to a great extent, even when Muslims are elected to govern.
In Holland there is the Freedom Party of Geert Wilders, it is very popular in the polls now, hovering around 30 seats in 150-seats-parliament. But most other parties oppose it, on grounds of “not offending or discriminating against Muslims”. THIS offends me a lot. Because I feel we should look at Islam and Democracy in a global way now. And Islamic behavior in Islamic countries is outright outrageous by our standards, especially apostacy-laws, huge one-sided propaganda, absence of propaganda. In my view most Dutch democratic parties should be addressing that, asking Muslims whether or not they support that over our system. But instead they harass Geert Wilders 95 % of the time!
The most important point seems to me that we should somehow sound the Muslims out; Do they prefer systems like those in the Islamic countries, highly unjustly highly favorable to Islam over our democratic system or vice versa? That may clear things up. We may have hostile Muslims, clear Democratic ones and a big neutral group.
It is not in moderates, who supposedly condemn erratic Islamic behavior that I seek support, it is in Democratic Muslims who actually prefer Democracy IN Islamic countries!
Demsci,
As an immigrant myself, I have a perspective I’d like to share.
Just because someone moves from his/her ancestral home to a western country, does not mean that he/she has made a cultural shift and shed the conflicting value-systems of the ancestral home. This applies to all immigrants – irrespective of region or religion.
The immigrant works and operates in the western society but feels like a misfit. He/she seeks solace and comfort by making friends with others within his/her own community (i.e. same country or religion).
Now – HERE is where things become interesting for muslims.
Since the only common thread for bonding within the community is Islam, it becomes not only an important window, it becomes the ONLY WINDOW through which they see the world around them.
Islam (and Koran) is so FULL OF sanctified intolerance, bigotry and hatred that suddenly they start to think that its not their fault that they are misfits. Its the fault of the europeans for being so “immoral”. They start to realize that all the things that the Koran forbids are *exactly* the things that europeans value and cherish. Now the word infidel (or Kafir) assumes a sinister tone.
Thus, an economic migrant, who may not have been such a devout muslim in his/her ancestral home slowly morphs into a die-hard Islamist. If enough Islamists hang around for long enough, sooner or later some of them will turn Jihadi and you have instances such as the murder of Van Gogh and the death threats to Ayan Hirsi Ali.
It is a logical progression.
Cheers.
Thus, an economic migrant, who may not have been such a devout muslim in his/her ancestral home slowly morphs into a die-hard Islamist.
I totally agree with you..very insightful HD. I have seen some of my moderate muslim friends transform into fanatics overnight. Some of them were progressive when they came here but now insist their wives wear hijab because the Quran says so.
We were at a dinner party in Pakistan with so-called moderate, enlightened, well-educated Muslims. I clearly recall my husband’s boss’s wife’s reaction to the very mention of the Danish cartoons…I thought she was going to scratch his eyes out, and all he did was ask if the prohibition of images of the prophet should extend to non-Muslim countries. She turned from a very beautful, well-spoken, poised and elegant hostess to a foaming-at-the-mouth beast ready to kill to defend her prophet. That led to a swift subject change and somehow to an unreserved apology from my husband for the Crusades. It was an eye-opening experience spending 2 years amongst the Borg. We censor ourselves depending on who we’re talking to, but we came to the conclusion that if they exist at all, so-called moderate muslims are in the minority. I can site myriad examples to support this seemingly blanket generalisation. Before we moved there, I was on the floofy side of people who said we shouldn’t offend the poor Muslims who don’t like their prophet depicted. I kept trying to see the good in the religion and in the people who follow it, but the rose-tinted specs faded and the truth was inescapable. The cartoon in this post, the video in this post, and the content of this entire blog show the true nature of Islam. Now, if we can just get the rest of the world to see the truth………
Yunis @ 7:54, “one of the primary goals of Sharia as studied in classical discourse … is the protection of freedom of speech.” LOL.
Stats are difficult to come by in Muslim countries, but if I’m to draw from my personal experience from having lived in Saudi Arabia, I would say 10% are actually hardliners, and 50% are sympathetic to the hardliners. They would constitute a majority as you said, HD. Now this is for SA only.
I would agree they are in denial over the religion. I frequent Arabic atheist blogs and I see a lot of Muslim responses ranging from threats to curses, but there are Muslims who make civil arguments, false as they may be, that Islam is not violent. I see 10 comments threatening death followed by 1 comment saying Islam is peace.
I still don’t like to view all Muslim as one entity, not anymore than I would for other religions. If what we call moderates are enablers of violence by silence and the decent people are marginal and insignificant, then there really is no hope other than to eradicate them completely.
I think the Saudi government played a major role in advancing current Islamic ideology. Islam wasn’t savory before, true, but just when many Mideast countries started to modernize socially, Saudi sponsored mosques started popping up everywhere with antithetical message. Almost all major terrorist attacks can be traced back to this origin. Same goes for the link between Iran and sponsored Shiite groups.
Speaking of Danish cartoons… I was on a rare visit to Saudi Arabia at the time and there was a consumer boycott of Danish products. For the enlightened few, buying and serving Danish cheese and butter is now a symbol of solidarity with Denmark, which can’t be otherwise legally expressed in there. It’s also a nice way to tell the beards to go do something with themselves, all without getting arrested.
How did they cope without Danepak bacon and Carlsberg Export??? 😛
Good post.
Even if we were to accept the notion that a mere 1% of Muslims are extremists, this would still mean there were millions of Islamic extremists actively planning the downfall of the democratic world.
And unfortunately, Muslims who truly do oppose extremism, have to SHOW that they do. So far, they are failing dismally at this.
All of this aside, though, one only has to read the Quran to realise that there is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam’. And Muslims who are peace loving, are like this DESPITE Islam, and certainly not because of it.
‘And Muslims who are peace loving, are like this DESPITE Islam, and certainly not because of it.’
True. I think Muslims who think they are moderate and peaceful have a serious internal struggle because they know deep down how not moderate and peaceful their precious prophet was. This is one of many reasons they cannot handle scrutiny and open discussion about Islam.
I read a book called ‘Who Speaks for Islam’ with the great (and i now see completely fruitless) hope that I could find sense and justice in Islam. It outlines the views of millions of Muslims who were surveyed around the world. All this book (written by an apologist westerner and a Muslim woman) did for me was to solidify the Geert Wilders view.
I feel sorry for Muslims. No matter how good-hearted and kind they are, they are imprisoned by the all-pervasive religion into which they were born. Imagine you were born and raised in a dark smelly dungeon with no hope of escaping without (seemingly) dire consequences. You wouldn’t know freedom, and the easy option would be to convince yourself that you and your lifestyle are superior to those living free in the sunshine. This is much easier to do if you only spend time with others who are also convincing themselves of the same thing. This is the life of a Muslim. I can only explain converts to Islam with a chemical imbalance in the brain.
I just must add that I lovelovelove Geert Wilders!
I cannot bear it when people condemn him, instead of condemning the many and serious death threats he has received from the worldwide Muslim community.
When I see ‘moderate’ Muslims marching through the streets protesting the terrorism done in the name of their religion, THEN I will believe that there are moderate Muslims. I have yet to see that happen.
We also have to blame the dhimmi governments of countries like Britain – and I myself am a Brit – which don’t stand up for free speech and democracy. Frankly, I don’t give a damn WHAT Muslims feel or think when they move to the West. My grandfather was an immigrant from Russia and he and fellow Jews had it very tough. But they just got on with it and never, ever for one second expected Britain nor any other country to bend to THEIR religious preferences.
When Muslims move to non Islamic nations, they have to accept non Islamic sensibilities. End of. If they don’t like it, they can and should leave.
And until and unless European governments say this, then I fear we are in for a hell of a bad time.
Agreed. 100%.
Exactly like Christians and Jews, based on their holy texts and exemplary nation’s behaviours.
Thank you for informing me about the mindset of economic migrants and its logical progression. Gobbycoot later also described the life of a Muslim in this way. I truly did not realise this and it has me worried.
There are many “neutral” Muslims in the West, but they in the majority seem to be much more loyal to the Islamic “Umma” than to their new countries or its democratic system. They seem so much more critical about Western misbehavior then Islamic misbehavior. They seem untrustworthy, liable to get in leaque with the Jihadists when given the opportunity.
And there are also, in my view, so many ignorant citizens of our democratic countries. Take Geert Wilders’ position in Holland for instance. Most parties in advance refuse to form a coalition with his party, arguing that he is “Hate-sowing, discriminating against Muslims”.
In this respect I am appalled by the behavior of our decent political parties. I think they think narrowmindedly national. But if they looked global, then they would see how much worse are the Islamic leaders than Geert Wilders is. Anyway, many seem to think like him, because he is very popular in the polls right now.
Interesting article in Dawn by Irfan Hussain comparing Taliban and the Borg.
“Running through several episodes are a number of encounters with the Borg, an aggressive culture that assimilates entire species, and annihilates those that resist. Once assimilated, individuals have a number of implants placed within them to incorporate them into the Borg collective. All species thus ‘assimilated’ lose their sense of self, and become small cogs in the giant hive mind, to the extent that they retain no personal memories, and even lose their names. ‘Resistance is futile!’ is what the Borg say to every new species they meet.
Watching a re-run featuring the fearsome Borg, I was struck by how similar they are to the Taliban.”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-irfan-husain-the-taliban-as-the-borg-659-hs-04
But Irfan falls short of saying that Quran and Islam produces these Taliban-the real-life Borgs.